Two ‘Little Horns’ – Do Daniel Chapters 7 & 8 describe the same individual?

A prevalent view I’ve encountered lately is that the “Little Horns” of Daniel chapters 7 & 8 describe the same person. After all they both chronicle “Little Horns”, a rather unique descriptor, and either explicitly or implicitly state that “the vision pertains to the time of the end” (Dan 8:17, 19).  The term “Little Horn” is too specific it is argued, it must they refer to the same time, kingdom and individual!  While there are clearly some differences, mustn’t we massage and synthesize the data to arrive at the truth? No. To be certain, there is a relationship between the two; they are in the same ‘family’; similar, but not the same evil entity.

Let us briefly examine some of the distinctives of the two Little Horns, then we can discover their actual identities.  Let’s start with the Chapter 7 Little Horn (LH):

  • The Ch. 7 LH stays small, unlike the one in Ch. 8, although it has “great boasts” (v8, 11)
  • Its littleness draws attention to its eyes and mouth (v8)
  • 3 of the 10 horns were pulled out by the roots before it (v8)
  • This LH was slain, and given to the burning fire, presumably by “the Ancient of Days”, described in verses 9 & 10 (v11).  BTW, this is also the destiny of “the Beast” of Revelation, see Rev 19:20.
  • It makes war with the saints (kaddesh, ‘holy ones’, the Greek version of which, hagios, is used of believers in the book of Revelation) and prevails (v21)
  • Judgment was passed on the horn and the kingdom was given to the saints (v22)
  • This little horn arising from the ten that issue from the fourth beast, will be “different” from the previous ones and will subdue three kings (v24)
  • He will speak out against the Most High and wear down his saints (v25) He will try to make changes in times and laws (v25)
  • They will be delivered for a “time, times and half a time”. A common interpretation of this is 1+2+1/2 = 3-1/2 years, although another plausible interpretation goes like this: It will take time, then it will seem like a really long time (times), then the end will come suddenly, in 1/2 a time. (v25)

Inserted into this description of this Little Horn’s time is the coming of the ‘Son of Man’ (v13), who brings an everlasting kingdom, with people serving Him, that will never pass away. It is rather simple to conclude that this is a prophecy of Yeshua, the Son of Man’s second coming, and this Little Horn, who is tied with the terrible, fourth beast (v7, 8, 11, 19, & 20), is none other than the Antichrist, the Beast of Revelation.

So now let’s review the Chapter 8 Little Horn:

  • The ram has two horns representing the Medes and Persians. The longer horn comes up last, representing Cyrus and the Persians (v3, 20)
  • The ram “butts” or pushes west, south and north, the direction of their greatest conquests (v4)
  • A he-goat comes from the west, which v 21 identifies as Greece; its feet don’t touch the earth (its fast). It has a “conspicuous horn”; from history, this is Alexander (v5)
  • The he-goat Greece triumphs over Medo-Persia (v6-7)
  •  The one conspicuous horn broke into four; again from history, Cassander, Lys., Seluecus and Ptolemy (v8)
  • A LH grew up from one of the four; this is Antiochus Epiphanes (AE), proceding from Seleucus. This horn grows, unlike the horn of Chapter 7.  It grew toward “the Desire” or the “Beautiful Land”, NASB (v9)
  • It grew toward “the host of Heaven”, causing some of these stars to fall (v10).  These could be the holy people, the Jews, or angels.
  • It magnified itself to be equal to the Commander of the Host (Yahweh God), and removed the regular sacrifice from Him (v11).  Historically sacrifice was stopped for several years by AE, in 168-165 BC.
  • The host (the Jewish people) are given over to the LH, who flings truth to the ground (v12)
  • The transgression that causes horror, the vision of the stopping of the regular sacrifice, takes 2300 evenings and mornings to be properly restored (v13, 14). This could mean 2300 days, or 1150 days, since “evenings and mornings” are described, possibly referring to the twice daily sacrifices.  This in itself is a “foreshadowing” or type of the Abomination of Desolation which descends on Israel as a result of their rejection of their Messiah, Yeshua.

Verses 20-26 of Chapter 7 interpret the verses referenced above, including revealing the kingdoms involved (Media, Persia and Greece) and more detailed description of this insolent king, skilled in intrigue (v23).

While there are certainly similarities (more on that in a moment), consider these significant differences:

  • The Ch. 7 LH arises from the terrible beast, different from all others, amidst 10 horns, overthrowing 3, while the Ch. 8 LH arises out of one of the four horns, described as emanating from Greece.
  • The Ch. 7 LH is defeated by appearance of both the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man, resulting in an eternal kingdom wherein the Son is served and obeyed by all peoples and men of every language, while the Ch. 8 LH stops regular sacrifice, which is eventually restored. The only one who meets this description is Antiochus Epiphanes, because after he died, the temple sacrifices were reinitiated. Following the desolation of the temple in 70 A.D., there can be no regular sacrifice to interrupt or restore.

The similarities are noteworthy as well—they are both “horns”, imbued with strength, they both afflict and war against the holy people, they appear in the future relative to Daniel’s point of view, and the two Little Horns are eventually destroyed by God.

The End Time, eschatonic Beast and the Little Horn that arises from him are described first, then this Little Horn’s foreshadower Antiochus Epiphanes, also a Little Horn, is revealed.  In other words, “here is how things finally end with the appearance of the Son of Man’s eternal kingdom on earth” (Chapter 7) while “this one is a pattern and type; he will appear first” (Chapter 8).

11 Responses to Two ‘Little Horns’ – Do Daniel Chapters 7 & 8 describe the same individual?

  1. Willard says:

    Kurt – I think you have helped me proof that Rome is not the iron legs of Dan 2 by re-looking once again at 7 and 8.

    Da 7:17 ‘The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. JUST LIKE REVELATION 13 AND AFTER THE FOUR KINGDOMS THE MOST HIGH POSSES IT FOREVER

    Da 7:18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.

    The four are from Daniels day Babylon, Persia, Greece and Islam Religious, Political, Militarily. If Rome is in Dan 2 it has to be one of the thighs of the bronze. One thigh being the Roman Greek speaking ME nations and one thigh being the Latin Roman European nations prophetically falling under the Greek umbrella, because Rome originally came out of the Etruscans a Greek people. Daniel never speaks of or suggest a fifth kingdom other than the Rock that crushed.

    Da 7:19 “Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.
    Dan 7:20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
    Da 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them,
    Da 7:22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

    The ten horns are a part of the fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will devour the entire earth which Islam is doing each iron leg being one Sunni and one Shiite very likely the Ottomans. Ottomans were wounded died for a time broken at the ankles but as per verse 7:24 clearly teaches the ten horns, ten kings, ten toes WILL COME FROM THIS FOURTH KINGDOM. And from these ten another king will arise. Not a kingdom but simple a king like the Mahdi, A/C. It will be him / he who will subdue three kings of the ten and the other seven will give him their power. There is not kingdom five as many are suggesting to be found in Dan chapter two.

    Da 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

    Rev 13:2-3 reaffirms this as well

    Da 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

    Changing the set times and laws is an additional clear sign of Islam.

    Da 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

    In 7:5 we are also told that the bear (Persia) will have three ribs in its mouth. In 7:8 we are told three horns were up rooted. In 7;20 we are told that three horns fell. I think what we are going to see is Iran take control of three of the ME nations likely related to the Arab spring nations and the A/C will come out of some area of Persia.

    Da 7:5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh

    If what I am suggesting is on the right track which has yet to be proven than the US forces that are in the Arabian Gulf will suffer some major disasters. I hope and pray that I am wrong but this is were the conclusions seem to lead to. The only out that I see is Iran taking over three nations and than seven and the US does nothing. Big question mark ??

    What says you

  2. Kurt J. says:

    Willard, that coin is something! It seems to go right along with what is written in Dan 8:9 about the horn that grows! It looks more like a ram’s horn than a goat’s, so there is that difference from Daniel 8; the ram symbolizes Media-Persia, while the goat represents Greece.

    On your question regarding Dan 7:5 vs 7:8; I know you’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this, and the correspondence really makes sense to you, but I see the first 3 beasts in Dan 7 similar to the first 3 parts of the Dan 2 statue; they are historical kingdoms, while the fourth is either Rome or Islam, or Islam superseding Rome… It’s not yet clear in my mind that Rome has no part in the Daniel prophecies.

    It’s difficult for me to totally discount Rome, since it ruled Israel during Yeshua’s time on earth, and it was a fearsome/iron kingdom… I find it implausible for Daniel’s prophecies about the end times kingdoms to run continuously from the 5th Century BC to the 2nd Century, then skip 8 centuries forward to the beginning of Islam.

    This is not about a “revived Roman Empire”, this is just about what the texts actually say; I definitely do see Islam prophesied in Daniel, but I also think I see Rome; I haven’t been dissuaded of that yet.

    But back to the 3 ribs vs. the 3 horns – frankly I don’t know. I do think the first beast (the Lion) is Babylon, the second is Persia and the third is Greece. The fourth is either Rome morphing into Islam (2/3 of Rome’s territory was taken over by Islam eventually; the Beast spawns 10 kingdoms) or Islam alone.

    Dan 7:12, As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time., is confusing. This is AFTER the AC Little Horn was destroyed. Perhaps this means during the Millennium.

  3. Willard says:

    But back to the 3 ribs vs. the 3 horns – frankly I don’t know. I do think the first beast (the Lion) is Babylon, the second is Persia and the third is Greece. The fourth is either Rome morphing into Islam (2/3 of Rome’s territory was taken over by Islam eventually; the Beast spawns 10 kingdoms) or Islam alone.

    I suspect that we will know in the not to distant future

  4. Willard says:

    Kurt I am not discarding Rome completely I see its PROPHETIC place under the umbrelah of Greece – one of the bronze thighs – other than Dan 9:26 which was historically looked upon as Rome since rejected by people like you and me and others I cannot see Rome anywhere in the OT. Even in the new it is hard to find Rome palying a PROPHETIC part – Yes there is the book of Romans but that is a letter to the Jews of Rome than we have Pontius Pilate and Festus but they were govenors over Israel.

    Da 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

    Da 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.

    I think the key two verses here to understanding who the fourth kingdom is 1) Gold, 2) Silver, 3) Bronze and 4) IRON is the two above. 7:23 tells us that the fourth Beast is the fourth kingdom that will appear ON EARTH and it will be different from all the other kingdoms and it (the fourth) will devour the whole earth. Which is what Islam is the process of doing. It does not say rule or control but devour which may or may no have a point to it.

    Then in the next verse v24 we are told that the ten horns or ten kings, ten toes will come out of it (the fourth) If Rome is in here than the question that arises is what ten kingdoms did Rome devour in the ME during its reign ??

    In Daniel 8:23 we are told that that IN THE LATTER PART of their reign (the four horns) that this is the time – when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. This stern faced king – a master of intrigue who will arise can only be the A/C – The Greek invention of Democracy is what is being demanded by the ME people right now today.?? Additionaly the Arab spring nations including Turkey, Iaran, Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan are the very nations once ruled by the Selucides – things just seem to be pointing that way ????

    Da 8:22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
    Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
    Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people

    You have some good insites Kurt I do enjoy them

  5. Willard says:

    Not wanting to sound like a pain but I guess the bottom line Kurt is that the iron legs refered to as the fourth kingdom can only be one of two options – Rome or Islam there really are no other options, it has to be one or the other simply because the way Daniel gives us the info.

    Because the ten nations – horns – toes or what ever we call it come OUT OF THE FOURTH kingdom. The answer to this is important to clarify and firmly defend a postion in the Rome verses Islam end times empire debate.

    As we are now promoting an Islamic end time scenario the legs have to be Islam there simply is no other option. If it is Rome than the ten toes have to be European unless we add a fifth empire.

    Prophectically because there are only four kingdoms there is simply no other options for the iron legs and toes either they are both Rome or they are both Islam. If we are preaching Islam yet counting Rome as the iron legs we are stuck with a fifth kingdom #5 and the question than is where did Islam begin in this metal statue

    Than Dan 4:15 also fits when the bound stump is unbound and the root once again begins or is allowed to grow in these last days that the the iron band Islam is coming with the bronze band which is ancient Greece fulfills it prophecy because the Little Horn come out of one of the four Greek horns – the people or nations once ruled by Seluecious

    • donal says:

      toes are nations while 10 horns are 10 kings it is what angel said. you will not find daniel 2 verse mention about 10 toes only toes.

  6. MrRondonmon says:

    Both Little Horns are one and the same. Daniel, and God via the dream of course, gives us the very place of the birth of the Anti-Christ, through a riddle. The Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast/Revived Rome/Euro Union.

    The Little Horn also arises out of one of the Four Generals of Alex the Great. Since it pushes south and east, we know it was centered in the North and West. Only Greece lies in the footprint of the European Union. The Anti-Christ MUST ARISE out of both. God gave us this riddle and locked it up until the end days.

    This is a very easy riddle, now that the Holy Spirit has chosen to reveal it.

    The Anti-Christ was born in Greece. He is in the world now, and his family is from Old Assyria.

  7. donal says:

    – 4 beasts Daniel 7
    1. Babylon
    2. Persia
    3. Greece
    4. islam

    – 10 horns
    1. muhamad
    2 Abu bakr
    3 umar
    4 utman
    5 ali
    6 hasan
    7 husein
    8 khalid ibn al walid
    9 Abu ubaidah
    10 jafar bin abi talib

    >> 10 horns purpose to give power and authority to the beast (rev 17:13) they will rule for one hour that’s 41 years (one prophetic day equal to 1000 years) started 620 (islam perfected when mohamed ascend to heaven-isra mijrad and receive allah order to pray 5 times/day) until 661 when ali,hasan,husein subdue to muawiyah

    Small horn: muawiyah

    after mohamed died he replaced by 4 caliphs, abu bakr, umar both father in law, utman, ali both son in law of mohamed so all blood related to mohamed. problem arise when utman replaced by ali, muawiyah who’s blood related to utman but not to ali protest said no need blood related to mohamed to rule islam anyone can as long as justified and starting rebellion (first fitna- islam internal conflict). in 660 AD muawiyah gain control most of islamic caliphate territory and jan 661 ali died months later ali sons hasan (5th caliph) and husain(2nd imam of shiah) surrender to muawiyah new caliphate sytem (non blood/sunni) last for 1260 years from 660 (muawiyah gain control of IC) until 1920 (first meeting of league of nation, fall of ottoman)

  8. Willard Stewart says:

    Good Stuff. You have clarified for many the 2 horns. So often certain sector of the christian church shout that the Bible must interpret itself yet they have failed to use the Word to interpret itself. Chapter 7 speaks to Rome & chapter clearly highlights Greece. Here is where some SDA leaders and some some academics have missed the biblical boat. by insisting that the 2300 prophecy has to do with the Roman “Little Horn.” Solid piece of work. God bless you.

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